Welcome friends! Today I have Shelly Campbell and Allison Alexander on the blog for an interview about their latest, Making Myths and Magic: A Field Guide to Writing Sci-Fi and Fantasy. You may remember this book when Allison mentioned it in her Indie Recommends Indie post. We have a lot to share so let’s get right into it:
Making Myths and Magic: A Field Guide to Writing Sci-Fi and Fantasy by Shelly Campbell and Allison Alexander
So you want to write speculative fiction?
It’s time to get that fantastic world that’s been stuck inside your head for years, complete with dragons and androids, onto paper! Whether you’re starting your first or tenth novel, Making Myths and Magic was written for you.
Fantasy author Shelly Campbell and editor Allison Alexander have teamed up to provide a comprehensive resource, distilling the information they’ve learned from years in the publishing industry. To keep you inspired and engaged as you grow in your craft, they take a deep dive through science fiction and fantasy novels, movies, and TV shows.
Within these pages, you’ll learn how to tackle structure, dialogue, tropes, diversity, mythology, riddles, prophecies, fantastic creatures, weapons, technology, magic systems, languages, and more!
Let’s welcome Shelly and Allison and learn more about the book from them!
Before I quiz you about the book, can you tell me and my readers a bit about yourself?
Shelly (S): Kriti, thanks so much for having us. I’m Shelly Campbell, a dark fantasy, sci-fi and horror author who’s been fortunate enough to have several books published by great indie publishers. Although my speculative fiction tends toward the darker side, my daily life is much more light-hearted. When I’m not feverishly writing or reading, I enjoy drawing, painting, gardening and ferrying kiddos and stinky sports bags between various extracurricular activities.
Allison (A): So happy to be back here! I’m Allison Alexander, author, editor, and geek. I edit sci-fi and fantasy novels at a small press, write nonfiction books and articles (and am currently working on a super-secret fiction project that I’m very excited about), and am the co-host of the Wayfarer’s Guide to Worldbuilding podcast. I love drawing, Dungeons & Dragons, and playing video games.
How did the two of you end up collaborating on this project?
A: The small publisher I helped start, Mythos & Ink, is all about supporting and encouraging authors through publishing books, writing blog articles, hosting a Discord server, and creating a podcast. We wanted to create a resource specifically for sci-fi and fantasy writers that these groups might find valuable. I figured I could write some of it from an editor’s perspective and wanted to team up with an author—Shelly was my first choice, and she said yes when I asked her!
What was the most challenging part of writing this book?
S: I was challenged by a bout of imposter syndrome while drafting this book because I’m not a veteran writer with decades of published books under my belt. Most of the advice we offer, I’m still working on implementing effectively in my own writing. While the process of creating Making Myths and Magic helped me explore different avenues to improve my craft, I worry that readers might peruse my previously published pieces and think: ‘Geez. That girl needs to take her own advice!’ I do. I will. Promise!
A: Trying to include information that will be useful for both beginner writers and advanced writers was a challenge, but even if writers are familiar with the concepts, I hope they find renewed inspiration from our use of sci-fi and fantasy examples.
What are some sci-fi and fantasy books that helped you in putting together this guide? How did your experiences as authors and editor play a role in what you wanted to cover?
S: I think it’s safe to say that The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien might have been an influence (both Allison and I used it as an example so much we had to go back and change some of the references for diversity’s sake). Honestly, I discovered so many incredible fantasy and sci-fi books while working on this guide, I can’t remember them all. Some of the topics I wanted to cover were subjects that I knew I’d need to review again in the future. I’ll be paging through my own copy of Making Myths and Magic many times over!
A: Among some of my favourite examples in the book: we talk about dialogue in Jim Butcher’s Dresden Files, gender roles in Tolkien’s The Lord of the Rings, sexual orientation in Xiran Jay Zhao’s Iron Widow, religion in Katherine Addison’s The Goblin Emperor and Samantha Shannon’s The Priory of the Orange Tree, neurodiversity in Ada Hoffmann’s The Outside, mythology in Tamsyn Muir’s Gideon the Ninth, riddles in Emily Rodda’s Deltora Quest series, prophecy in Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett’s Good Omens, song lyrics in Jordan Ifueko’s Raybearer, and so many more! It was so fun to dig into these books and pull out concrete examples that writers can look at when considering how to apply the advice.
Was there something that you had not initially planned on including in the book but later realized it was important to bring it in?
A: One of our beta readers lamented that we didn’t have a chapter on politics and economics, and I thought that was a really great suggestion because, personally, I find both those topics overwhelming and confusing. (What’s the difference between a dictatorship and totalitarianism? How much power does a monarch have? What are command and market economies?) So I added that chapter, doing lots of research to lay out basic principles. These systems are also great starting points to brainstorm “what if?” questions about your world’s societies. The chapter also analyzes Martha Wells’s Murderbot series and how she uses the galaxy’s primary economic system to critique capitalism.
I have loved reading the reviews from so many of my authors friends for your book. How do you feel about the response so far?
S: It’s incredible to see such an enthusiastic early response. I’ve been smiling until my cheeks hurt.
A: Really honoured. If even one person finds it helpful, then it was worth it—so it was worth it.
Was there something you learned about each other during co-authoring this book?
S: We both love Star Wars, The Lord of the Rings, Firefly, and Battlestar Galactica. Ha! Seriously though, Allison’s ability to polish early drafts into concise, elegant and engaging prose was incredible to see in action.
A: Shelly has a really lovely nonfiction writing voice—which I haven’t seen much of before, because I’ve mainly worked with her fiction novels—and it is complementary to my own. We both like a dash of humour, are enthusiastic, and occasionally make tongue-in-cheek statements. Her ability to research and relay information while providing personal examples is on point!
Prophecies are one of my favorite parts about fantasy. Can you tell me and my readers about writing prophecies and what you cover in the book related to them?
S: Prophecy was one of the topics in a chapter I took on. I was fascinated to discover how humans are wired to solve problems. The satisfaction we get from solving a puzzle activates the same part of our brain that responds to food; this means a solved problem is as equally rewarding to us as a good meal. And prophecies are a great puzzle to propel a reader through a story.
In Making Myths and Magic, we cover different categories of prophecies with examples for each, and we lay out a step-by-step process for creating your own prophecy while avoiding some common pitfalls. Hopefully it’s a good starting point to spark some creative ideas for writers.
If you had to pick, what are three chapters that you absolutely recommend every SFF author to check out from your book?
S: My favourite ones, of course! “Brainstorming and Outlining” is our first chapter. Beginning a project is always the hardest part of the writing process for me and I’m sure there are writers out there who struggle at the starting blocks too. I also love Chapter 20, “Clothing and Costumes,” mostly because I didn’t expect a chapter on clothing to be so interesting to research. Lastly, I recommend Chapter 23, “Society and Culture,” as inspiration to think outside one’s own cultural box.
A: Dialogue is one of the most common problems I see from querying writers, so I recommend Chapter 5, “Riveting Dialogue,” which gives lots of sci-fi and fantasy examples on how to improve your novel talk. I think every author should read Chapter 11, “Diversifying Your Novel,” to understand their own biases and how to research beyond their experiences. And finally, Chapter 15, “Magic and Superpowers,” because everyone loves thinking about magic systems!
As a storyteller and editor, what did writing together look like? Did you have defined goals or set areas that each of you was going to work through?
S: Allison came to me with the idea of collaborating, as well as an outline of the subjects she wanted to cover. We split up topics we were interested in and ended up with almost an even number of chapters to write. Once we wrote our assigned chapters, we shared them with each other for feedback and input. I have a feeling my chapters needed a lot more editing than Allison’s did.
A: I am all about lists and spreadsheets and organization, haha. I HATE writing first drafts so it was super nice to have Shelly writing half of them. I also did a fair amount of editing and getting everything organized together once the drafting was done, and it’s always a joy to work with Shelly’s writing. I feel like we just slid into our writer/editor relationship, which is already established, meaning Shelly took my lead a lot where organization was concerned. I hope I didn’t boss her around too much!
What is a piece of advice you would give to authors looking to write a book together? Would writing fiction together vs. nonfiction have different approaches?
S: My advice would be to go into every partnership realizing that this collaboration is going to be different from other writing experiences. It’ll take some time to find your collective flow, and that’s okay. I’ve been lucky to have collaborated on both fictional and nonfiction pieces, and I think there is a different approach depending on your co-author’s personality, writing style, and your relationship in general. For example, I did the majority of the writing in an upcoming sci-fi novel, Knowledge Itself, while my co-author provided most of the plot outline as well as guidance for writing our main character with ADHD, as this is something she’s lived with and I haven’t. If you’ve found someone who is as excited about an idea as you are, and the partnership makes you more motivated than you would have been on your own, you’re on the right track!
A: Don’t expect writing the book will be easier because there are two of you. If anything, it’s the opposite, because you’re combining voices, work habits, expectations, etc. You will have differing opinions, and it’s a matter of learning how to discuss things with each other and make decisions moving forward.
Nonfiction feels more straightforward to me than fiction (though I might be biased because most of my writing experience is nonfiction); Shelly and I didn’t have a lot of disagreements because we approached the topics so similarly and once the chapter topics were set, it was just a matter of laying out the information in a readable manner. With fiction, there are so many nuances to discuss about characters, plot, setting—you’re going to have a lot more decisions to make together about what happens and where the story is going. Being upfront about your expectations of each other (how much will each of you write? Will you write alternating chapters? Will you outline beforehand? Who’s responsible for editing?) and determining how you will resolve disagreements will help you avoid headaches later.
Do you have any plans to create another field guide in the future?
S: While I was happy to be invited to work on Making Myths and Magic, nonfiction isn’t really in my wheelhouse, and I’ve been focusing on my fiction projects. The second book in my Marked Son series, Voice of the Banished, comes out on March 31. And right now, I’m working on finishing my collaboration Knowledge Itself, which is a novel set in post apocalyptic Western Canada. Solar flares have wiped out the Internet, people have long ago burned their books as fuel to stay warm during winters with no electricity, and one commune scavenges information off old hard drives to sell to the highest bidder. The protagonist, Iris, has ADHD and will be expelled to the sun-baked wastelands if she can’t keep her desk job. Knowledge Itself will be published this August as the first book in a trilogy.
A: I have some ideas for future writing guides from an editor’s perspective; I had actually written a lengthy chapter on using the enneagram to inspire character creation for Making Myths and Magic, but ended up cutting it because it didn’t fit the rest of the book. I’d like to do something with that at some point—perhaps turn it into a longer resource. Currently, I am dipping my toes into fiction and writing a fantasy novel.
Thank you so much for taking time out for me and my readers. Allison, it is always a pleasure to host you. Shelly, I am sure to be chatting with you again in the coming weeks.
Thanks for having us, Kriti!
Thank you for hanging out with Shelly, Allison and me! Learn more about Mythos and Ink on their website. Connect with Allison on her website, Twitter, Instagram and Goodreads. You also also find Shelly on her website, Twitter, Instagram and Goodreads. Add Making Myths and Magic: A Field Guide to Writing Sci-Fi and Fantasy to your Goodreads TBR.
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