Tony Ganzer

Welcome back, friend! This month’s non-fiction feature is Tony Ganzer’s Kneading Journalism: Essays on baking bread and breaking down the news. Let’s chat with Tony about the book and his experiences as a journalist.

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Get to know the author: Tony Ganzer

Hi Tony! It is a pleasure to have you on Armed with A Book. Please tell me and my readers a bit about yourself.

 Thank you for the opportunity, Kriti! I’m based near Cleveland, Ohio, and I’m a husband, dad, writer, amateur bread baker, sailor, musician, podcaster–we all contain multitudes. I currently work in content strategy, but for nearly 20 years I was a public media journalist in the US and Europe, acting as a host and reporter for various National Public Radio stations and as a correspondent for the Swiss Broadcasting Corporation. I was honored to have been trusted to help tell so many people’s stories over the years with a lot of my reporting trying to tackle polarizing issues with a level-head, like immigration and asylum policy in Germany and Switzerland, or how a diverse group of Clevelanders saw their relationship with the police in the wake of high-profile shootings. For years, I hosted a monthly event to talk about international affairs in a local bar as a way to connect academics, NGOs, journalists and citizens. It was not always easy to talk about complicated global issues, but it demonstrated my belief in having healthy conversations rooted in a willingness to learn and share. And that was also a driving impulse for my book Kneading Journalism.

I love the title: Kneading Journalism: Essays on baking bread and breaking down the news. What inspired you to explore two seemingly disparate subjects, journalism and bread, together?

 Thank you, I know it can seem pretty random, but I think I proved there was something worth exploring! Back in 2017 or 2018 I came to a kind of crossroads of needs: I wanted to improve my video editing abilities; I wanted to take up bread baking again, and see if I could bake healthy bread for my family; and I wanted a project that felt fulfilling to me personally. As I came to this crossroads I was also kind of adopted by the fandom of Korean megagroup BTS. Long story short: some of these ARMYs as they called themselves began asking my opinion on journalism issues, be it best practices or advice on how they might articulate their story to other journalists as they did me. This positive exchange got me thinking that maybe this could be a use case for healthy dialogue around journalism and media. So I launched a vlog series that I called “The Baking Journalist” where the premise was: I’ll try to bake a loaf of bread, and while I’m doing it we can think through something about journalism. Bread is seemingly a neutral activity that is used in language and our homes to signify connection. We “break bread” at a common kitchen table to hash out issues or just share fellowship. In the end, I had a project that touched on nearly every issue I had at the crossroads of needs, and a book of essays grew out of it.

Of all the historical events and figures mentioned in this book, which one was most impactful to you?

 That’s a tough question, and if you’ll permit me two answers for very different reasons. In terms of magnitude, the chapter on my reporting in Egypt and the politics of bread is one that I took great care in doing it justice (and I hope others find it that way!) I was completing my MA in International Relations as the dust was still settling from Egypt’s revolution and the broader “Arab Uprisings”, and when the opportunity came to travel with a Swiss-Egyptian man to tell the story of Cairo through his and his family’s eyes, I felt a tremendous responsibility. I wrote that essay with my best attempt at a John McPhee style – journalistic creative non-fiction (or journalistic memoir if you prefer). That trip had an immense influence on me personally and professionally, and I wanted the essay to demonstrate that gravity.

And briefly: I also found one of the opening stories about a French bread riot impactful because it was the first connection I made between journalism and bread that felt natural. I found an academic paper which told the story of a series of uprisings in early 18th century France through the testimony of police and official records. I was fascinated by the story itself, about alleged price gouging of bakers and organized revolt of the citizenry, but I also realized there was no “Tony the journalist” there to tell the story in full. From there I asked “why not” and “what is journalism, anyway?” And off we went!

One of the unique aspects of Kneading Journalism is its inclusion of bread recipes alongside journalistic insights. How do you see the act of baking bread intersecting with the practice of journalism?

A lot of colleagues delivered scores of suggestions when I started talking about this project: both journalism and baking take time to do it right; you need to use the best quality information and ingredients to get a good result; both bread and journalism have styles suited to some occasions better than others; etc. But I tried to avoid most of those comparisons, at least as well as I could. 

For me, the intersection is fundamental: we need bread to live, and sharing and creating bread is an act of community. We need quality journalism as part of thriving constitutional liberalism (distinct from democracy, as Fareed Zakaria argued), which defines my perspective on society and community. Do I think journalism is as important as bread to the individual? As much as I would like to say yes, the plain truth is no: people need bread more than they need news. But if we see a renewed covenant between journalists and the public as a way to bolster community through documentation and reflection, then we’re on interesting ground. So by including recipes, someone can try to make the bread and have sustenance, while I try to help make a connection through some soul-searching about journalism’s place in helping strengthen community and the sense of shared experience.

Can you share how you selected the specific bread recipes featured at the end of each essay?

 As I did the initial Baking Journalist vlog, I was looking for recipes I was interested in or remembered from my days as an assistant baker at a food co-op. Over time, I tweaked the recipes and had enough experience with them that I felt confident vouching for them. Then I took that list and tried to think about the essay and whether there was any kind of connection. To have an essay about a French bread riot, well we’ve got to use French bread, right?! To talk about Machiavelli and calling journalists “enemy of the people,” maybe we make a nice rosemary Asiago bread that goes well with pasta. And for the final essays that are more personal and fundamental, I’m hard-pressed to think of a better fit than a standard sandwich bread.

It may be a loose connection, but there is some intent behind them!

When did you start working on this book? How was the first draft different from the final one?

 In 2019, I really picked up the pace with these essays. We had a newborn, and I would take the “first watch” to try to keep the baby asleep until 3 or 4 in the morning, so my wife could get a chunk of sleep. I’m a night owl anyway, so I used the time to do research and write. Some of these essays have pieces of older essays I wrote for my website, but I needed to update the perspectives and try to stay true to the premise of bread and journalism. Also, because they are essays a lot of the work was non-linear. I collected and began writing anecdotes and trying to build in other bread connections which just didn’t work for the flow of the book. I collected them in a separate document in case I need them. One newspaper clipping I found talked about bakers suffering respiratory illnesses from the flour in the air, and I went down a rabbit hole of occupational hazards, but it didn’t make the cut.

The last chapters were probably the ones that were the most raw because they’re the most personal, and reflected some real-time decision making on whether I wanted to stay in journalism at this moment in time.  

What is something you would like the readers of this book to take away or ponder?

 You’re right to be cautious and skeptical of the flood of information out there, but everything is on a spectrum. There is good journalism and bad journalism and so-so journalism; good journalists and not so good ones and so-so ones. We’re in an age of gross hyperbole and provocation, where we’re told there are often only two choices: good or evil, black and white, up and down. Most issues are not clear cut, and require us to explore the nuance. Giving each other the benefit of the doubt, and being willing to sit for a time and share some bread, might help us all navigate this world a little easier.

Do you have a favourite quote in Kneading Journalism that you find yourself going back to?

“The curious thing about traveling during a revolution is you’re not quite sure what is real and who can be trusted.”

Uncertainty of any kind can throw off our social depth perception and ability to think critically. Many journalists have a natural skepticism about a lot of things, but the post-revolutionary fog of reality and theater, made the Egypt trip a curious one for me. 

In today’s diverse and complex media landscape, how important is it for readers to have a deeper understanding of what journalism is and what it could be?

 The old saying “garbage in, garbage out” can be applied to our society, I think. The democratization of technology and access to publishing tools on the internet has been a boon for free speech, but it’s also created a noisier mediascape that most people don’t have the time or inclination to sift through. It’s a lot, I know. But in democracies, citizens have agency and the ability to shape the priorities and realities of ourselves and our posterity. We should want to be informed, and informed well, and journalism has a role in that. This isn’t a secret, and because it’s not a secret there are individuals and entities that co-opt journalism and the appearance of journalism to their own ends. In the best case, journalism is a tool of a populace driving progress, and in the worst case it’s a tool of oppression and obfuscation. I think our collective well-being depends on us working to enable the best case.

As someone who has worked in both local and international newsrooms, what advice do you have for aspiring journalists navigating the rapidly changing media landscape? What skills and qualities do you believe are essential for success in the field?

I think my best advice would be to understand that there is no single “right answer” to a model of journalism. Anyone claiming to have a monopoly on how stories must be told, or which members of our community are worthy of being heard, is wrong, full stop. You should take in media from many sources, hear how different kinds of outlets tell stories, monitor alternative media for variety – broaden your visibility of journalism, while making sure you have a good grasp on why certain outlets or people are framing stories the way they do.

And maintain a robust network, and don’t be afraid to use it. Journalism can be a messy field that takes its toll on physical and mental health. Friendships and mentorships help us get through those dark times (and that goes for anyone, in any field really!)

What do you see as the most pressing challenges facing journalism today, and how can individuals navigate and critically engage with the media landscape?

In my book I call it “journalism cosplay”: I think we need to be cautious of the level of entertainment shows that masquerade as news. There are so many satirical or overtly political shows that are muddying the waters of what is trustworthy and what is just manipulation for comedy or political gain. It’s not new, but the proliferation of podcasts and streaming platforms has created a lot of noise for us to sift through. It’s annoying, but I really suggest double checking a fact or a story before forming an opinion and reacting right away. Taking an extra moment to reflect can be helpful!

I think funding is still and will be one of the great problems for journalism. Legacy media outlets have been gutted by consolidation, by the inability to monetize content as well as search engines did, by the loss of talent, and more. Some people think philanthropic initiatives are the answer, but it’s not sustainable on its own—relying on any external funder creates dependency and risk. Ultimately journalism needs to recalibrate the supply and demand equation while proving its value. The airwaves have plenty of supply, and a lot of it is low value content. Can the public be convinced to rush from quantity to quality? I hope so…but a lot of things will need to work in concert to move the needle in the right direction.

Do you have any book recommendations for readers who want to explore journalism in fiction and non-fiction? I am particularly looking forward to The Ventriloquists by E.R. Ramzipoor.

 “The Murrow Boys” by Stanley Cloud is a great look back at the foundations of modern radio journalism in World War 2. 

“The Elements of Journalism” by Bill Kovach and Tom Rosenstiel is a little more in the weeds of journalism, but when I read it years ago I had felt like I had walked into a conversation I needed to have.

Is there anything else you would like to add?

 Thank you for this opportunity to speak with you and your readers. This book has brought me wonderful conversations and connections, and it’s an honor to continue that with you.

Thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me and share with my readers.

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Thanks for joining us! Connect with Tony on his website, X, Instagram, Medium, Facebook, LinkedIn and YouTube.

I hope you will check out Kneading Journalism on Goodreads.